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DK

Jewish women complain a lot about their reputation, but perhaps if they are unhappy with it, they could work together to change it, instead of screaming at those who call them out.

There are a lot of nice qualities common among Jewish women, but also some not so nice qualities. And the latter can be quite striking.

Jewish women are more vocal about their issues, but beneath the frequent appeasement, the jokes, etc., of many Jewish men, lurks an anger and resentment at a frequent pushiness that is not limited to shopping, an unreasonable expectation of equality that feels more like a demand for submissiveness, and a sense of entitlement to complain and be the victim no matter how wealthy and privileged.

In some ways, Jewish women are like Jews generally...just even more unreasonable.

Josh

The Coastie song is an interesting phenomenon: both because it springs from very specific class and regional issues on the Wisconsin campus, and because it has expressed itself through anti-Jewish and misogynistic stereotypes that trigger the alarms of people far beyond Madison. You make an interesting connection between the Coastie song and the Details piece -- all of which contributes to a fetishization of Jewish women specifically and Jewish culture in general. As a community we need to be careful because at times we allow this fetishization when it reflects well on us (see: Natalie Portman, VP candidate Joe Lieberman, Amy Winehouse) but it can quickly take a turn for the negative,(see: Amy Winehouse, Sen. Joe Lieberman, Haley Glassman).

Esther

DK, do you think I'm screaming? I'm profoundly unhappy with this image of Jewish women, or of women in general as gold diggers, and I'd be happy to do something about it if I could figure out what that would be. I know plenty of Jewish women who would say that Jewish men "are like Jews generally...just even more unreasonable." I've been struggling with this nuanceless dichotomy as I've written about Jews and dating, as well as in daily conversation with single people of any religion. Seriously, I'm open to suggestions.

Josh, I agree - the fetishization is something that people are disproportionately proud of, perhaps because they interpret it as an acceptance by the general culture. Why else have Jews been so obsessed with identifying Jews who made it in Hollywood - "if they can make it there, I can make it there, or anywhere I choose." We identify with these "public Jews" when it suits us and condemn them when it doesn't. Jews and fame is a complicated relationship to parse.

What War Zone???

Jewish individuals are no different from the Jewish state: we get way more attention that we deserve. I think we'd all take a little less attention (sigh). There could be plenty of unflattering songs written about other groups or white people but I guess the Jew is just that much more interesting...or easier to pick on without consequences or retribution.

Benji

P.S. That Details article was complete trash in my opinion.

VJ

I tend to agree a bit with Benji here, but know that it's also a bit of the new/old misogynistic stereotypes for all women that comes into play here. And typically unhappily so. The entire 'beauty myth' deal is also pretty significantly at work here too. If you're judged as 'conventionally pretty' that means that you're treated a bit differently everywhere. Less so? And you're still derided for not meeting some expectations & standards. Either way they've got you coming & going as it were. Which is the point. We have much less of this dreck about guys, right? Think about it. Cheers, 'VJ'

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